As reported earlier Graham Turner attended this mornings Home Affairs Committee at Westminster which was about the subject of police vicinity charging outside football grounds. The Hereford United chairman looked confident in front of the committee and argued his case with excellent clarity.
Chairman Keith Vaz MP asked Turner to explain the position at Hereford.
"Our situation was such that we have not paid police charges for many years. We do not have police inside the ground. We've had a great relationship with our local constabulary," said Turner
"And then last close season the force solicitor for West Mercia Police came along with an agreement for us to sign for 'vicinity charges'.
"They were for public car parks, the cattle market and the main A49 going north south through Hereford.
"We looked at it and the threat was that if we didn't sign the agreement they would go for full recovery costs which would be three times the amount.
"Now we've pared everything back to the bone in order to run a small club, and if we are going to have to pay these charges - I'll give you an extreme example - We played Swindon Town and the gate was 4,006 and our police bill, without a policeman inside the ground, was £16,500. That's over £4 per head!
"Now if that is going to continue, and we haven't settled the case yet, then we are, for certain matches, going to have to put £4 or £5 onto our admission prices because our main stream of revenue is from supporters. And if we are going to pay these bills to the police for vicinity charges for, for instance, a municipal car park which is three quarters full by 12 noon on a Saturday with shoppers and office workers.
"So it is a problem we are facing.
"I don't think people realise the contribution we as a small club make to our community. It is a big part of a lot of peoples lives even though the gates are not high. A lot of households take an interest even if they don't come to the games.
"We have a Community in Football scheme where we go into schools. Our players go out every fortnight and coach youngsters.
"Also we are involved with the Blind College and we've just put audio equipment into the ground to enable them to come along and soak up the atmosphere, shout at the referee if they want to, but they can listen to the commentary."
Turner was asked if he accepted the principle that Hereford should pay something.
"No," was Turner's firm reply.
"If it is inside the ground, if it's on our footprint of ground that we control or own, yes we would certainly be prepared to pay."
Mention was then made of whether one police officer should determine the cost.
"After ten years of police free bills or no bills suddenly we've been presented with this agreement."
Turner was asked about stewarding costs at Edgar Street.
"Off the top of my head I think it would be less than £2,000 per game. We had two arrests last season, and one was for a streaker.
"We are a relatively trouble free club and a lot of families come to our games.
"I've given the example of £16,000 for a match against Swindon," - is that an average asked one MP - "No, that was an extreme case, some of them are police free games. They will not put any extra police into the viscinity. Some are hundreds of pounds."
How much have you spent on policing asked another MP.
"We are still in dispute over our invoices. The total invoices would come to around £80,000."
And stewarding?
"Probably £50,000," replied Turner
That's £130,000 in total said the MP.
"For an average (gate) over the season of 3,200," continued Turner.
"We feel within the footprint of the ground, within the vicinity of the ground on the basis of those two arrests we do not request special police services.
"We've disputed every bill. We've got solicitors involved and they are not in negotations but in discussions with the police over the whole matter."
David Winnick MP asked Turner if he was disputing the entire sum or did he want to reach a compromise figure.
"We are disputing the principle of charging for municiple car parks where the council takes the profits from the car park charges, from the livestock market and around the A49 - we are disputing that principle that the law, in the opinion of our solicitors, doesn't entitle the police to ask for those amounts."
"With no disrespect for Hereford whatsoever," continued Winnick "you're not the sort of club Alan Sugar or Russian billionaires might buy."
"Hardly," quipped Turner.
"Do you have a struggle financially," asked Winnick.
"Yes, we've pared everything back to the bone," replied Turner. "We were relegated last season simply because we wouldn't loosen the purse-strings to pay out money we couldn't afford.
"These extra charges that have come about only over the last twelve months and it might just be a single person at West Mercia Police who has decided to change tack and suddenly started charging for vicinity charges
"It's something we can't absorb. So it's a possibility the club could get themselves into financial difficulties because of these extra charges. And what we will have to do, without a shadow of a doubt, is put the charges onto gate prices with the result that supporters will look - Swindon Town are coming, we've got to pay an extra £5, we've not going to the game. So diminishing returns."
Another MP then said if would full police costing was introduced (vicinity charges) what would it do to your business. Would you survive?
"No, not in its present state, possibly not as a league club. We would almost certainly have to go part time."
Keith Vaz thanked Turner and said he thought that the Hereford United chairman had made 'some very compelling arguments' this morning.
The whole proceedings can be viewed at http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=4316